My dad's an aa guy and he'd take me to meetings when I was growing up. Even as a fucking 12 year old it seemed like some culty shit. They almost all say it's a disease instead of an indulgence, just say you like alcohol more than the average person instead of victimizing yourself with the disease garbage.

In that argument I think Doug was the only one to ever call out jimmy's bullshit alcoholism. "You quit when you were 19, you didn't even flesh it out." Or something along those lines

Did the folks or fucks around him say your daddies sick he has a disease. .Permission to shoot them,YES.

It's not culty its just how you get people off booze. Doug is actually the best example of this. He's such an alcoholic it's his entire personality. He's like all the guys in those meetings in the sense that he needs to gut his entire sense of being to quit killing himself. Him and the rest of legitimate AA people need to literally live a different life to stop drinking every day and to a non-drunk that might seem weird. Imagine if Doug wanted to stop drinking, he'd need to remove every single person from his life cause they're all drunk sycophants. He's probably have to move.

He's actually mentioned this if I remember correctly. He takes a trailer into the middle of nowhere and sobers up(everything cold turkey) for a month.

I don't know how the DTs haven't killed him yet.

Doug has plenty of access to Benzo's (mexico is across his street) so DTs cant get him

It's not culty its just how you get people off booze.

It's super-culty (five of the twelve steps mention God, you're not supposed to tell anyone you're in it, and it's based on the weird Oxford Group religious movement), and it's not how you get people off booze as it only has a 1% success rate. In fact, as that Atlantic article points out, actually going to AA has about the same success rate as just talking about going.

Imagine if Doug wanted to stop drinking he'd need to remove every single person from his life...

If you listen to his podcast, he's got a bunch of friends who don't drink, including Mishka Shubaly (whose music closes out many of the podcast episodes, and who's written books about getting sober).

Yeah it mentions god. God is not a fucking cult. God is the behavioral mechanism humans developed after thousands and thousands of years of raping and murdering each other and have developed and tweaked thousands of years after. It's the way broken people can stop being broken and it seems to work well enough to still be used for decades while being secretive.

Wow a miserable drunk hating on AA, that's as amazing as a NEET atheist hating the Pope.

By the way every drunk has friends who don't drink retard, that's not an argument. Tell me more about his family that aren't exactly like him too.

Jesus! You'd think I just criticised Scientology!

Addicts are like living with cancer and AA is the doctor saying "there's this treatment that has a 1% success rate." You going to tell him he's a delusional asshole too?

It's more like the doctor says, "There's this treatment which relies on giving an imaginary dude up in the sky control over your life, and is administered by people aren't doctors or surgeons (but have had cancer), and it's got about the same success rate as doing nothing. Or, I've got a pill with an 80% success rate, that's non-addictive and cheap because the patent's expired so I can give you the generic. Which would you prefer?"

Seriously, if 12-Step Programs worked Bobby Kelly would be skinny as a rail, and Norton would be nauseatingly happily married.

It doesn't fix your life. You don't go into AA a drunk rapist and come out a sober monogamist, at best you come out a sober rapist.

Bobby's "addicted" to food, and Jim's "addicted" to sex.

If 12 Step programs worked, they each would have cured their respective addictions. I mean, they've both given up booze and drugs, apparently by AA - why hasn't the same method cured their other addictions?

AA is for alcoholics, not for making people perfect. That's why they have Sex Addicts Anonymous. That's why they have Narcotics Anonymous. Jim goes to neither. He goes to the one targeted to drunks to make himself feel better while he offloads his sickness in a completely different area. AA is not designed to make people free of all addictions, especially if they are there and lie about it to conceal their true addictions.

You're completely right about all of this but you garner downvotes because this sub is full of alkies who don't want to hear that drinking is terrible for them.

Jimmy has never attempted to fix his sex addiction, and indeed doesn't acknowledge he has one in the first place. Bobby doesn't attempt to fix his eating disorder either.

I'm not saying 12 step programs would help either of them, but we'll never know because neither of them give a shit or try to fix themselves in the first place.

Any more AA quotes? I love those simplistic niggets.

Rich Vos loves using them for a reason... it takes the place of thinking for yourself

All AA did was teach Norton how to behave like a self-destructive addict, and he started applying it towards sex.

Jesus! You'd think I just criticised Scientology!

The fact that you said this tells me you're above the age of 35, possibly 40. Nobody tuned into the culture references Scientology since they've been a joke for so long.

It's more like the doctor says, "There's this treatment which relies on giving an imaginary dude up in the sky control over your life, and is administered by people aren't doctors or surgeons (but have had cancer), and it's got about the same success rate as doing nothing. Or, I've got a pill with an 80% success rate, that's non-addictive and cheap because the patent's expired so I can give you the generic. Which would you prefer?"

How does the drug address what made them drink in the first place? Can you link that study? Because addicts aren't addicted to the actual substance, really. They're addicted to the neuralpathways that link that drug to fulfillment and extreme addicts just have more neuralpathways leading to it. So does the drug close those neuralpathways? Does it remove the desire to consume the substance when they do an unrelated action?

The fact that you said this tells me you're above the age of 35, possibly 40. Nobody tuned into the culture references Scientology since they've been a joke for so long.

See? Straight to the ad hominems. The slightest criticism of doctrine, even when accompanied by facts, and it's straight to attacking the man. It's the same with most cults.

Scientology teaches that illnesses such as alcoholism are caused by spiritual failings, and can be cured by a "searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves" and admitting "to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs" (stop me if you've heard any of this before). Scientologists use the term "Auditor" for the "other human being" who helps you with the process. That's why AA reminds me of it - similar mindset. If fact, that "attack the man, not the argument" tactic is straight out of Hubbard's manual on dealing with "suppressive persons" or unbelievers.

How does the drug address what made them drink in the first place? ...Because addicts aren't addicted to the actual substance, really.

That's doctrine talking, the AA cult mindset; it's taught you to believe that alcoholism is only treatable via moral/religious methods, will also holding the (contradictory) theory that alcoholism is an actual disease. If alcoholism's a physical disease, why would going to confession cure it? Why would it require God at all? Do you do that with other diseases - migraines, coughs and colds, herpes? How about other mental illnesses - schizophrenia, Alzheimer's?

Dead kid jokes are fine but dont you dare call out god and AA. thats way over the line here, pal

You are spot on

People need to read a certaint book about laws and power written by bob green

Take in some medicine

Calm down boozie

Yeah it mentions god. God is not a fucking cult. God is the behavioral mechanism humans developed after thousands and thousands of years of raping and murdering each other and have developed and tweaked thousands of years after.

I like your definition of God. But if the success rate is 1%, then wouldn't this mechanism be evolutionary useless? God would be failing.

But it's better than not going which has a 0% success rate.

That's just plain not true

I'm an alcoholic and AA doesn't work for me, I just can see through all the horseshit. But it works for a lot of people so who am I too put them down? If it works for you it works.

vury good point on your last sentence (and overall post).

What do you mean none of his logic is flawed? He's a depressed miserable creep surrounded by desert trash. Yeah he lives an okay life but maybe if he wasn't a drunk he could be one of the greats, he could be Kevin Hart level. He's not where he is because he's a fall-down drunk, he's there despite that. I'm like him, I'm a drunk too. I know the lies and bullshit. I do them all the time. And I'm not sober either, I'm not some AA guy, I just know a lying drunk when I see one and I hate this fucking false enlightenment.

Anything that helps people achieve what they want from life is great

No it's not, that's a fucking retarded way to look at life. Especially if what you want is happiness. Cause then that's just heroin. Everyone just does heroin. You don't need substances to live a good life. In fact the more substances you add, the less likely you are to live a good life.

everyone is different, but this rigidity & 'powerless', 'disease' stuff is bullshit, & individual egos dominate any hierarchical structure. Hugs. x

This is just a blithering inane mess of words and I hope you can clarify it, but I would appreciate it if you don't.

<Also, Doug mentioned alcohol & creativity (Jim said it only reduces inhibitions (nothing wrong with that anyway)), it can affect creativity & is hypthesised to do so by modulation of GABA receptors, leading to reduction in cerebral hemispheric signalling, resulting in thoughts postulating from elsewhere in the brain, 'thinking outside the box' if you will.

Please stop talking, you blithering idiot.

I'm sorry. I still love you babe

Jeeze you two getta room! Amrite?

yeah a PADDED ROOM

seriously though

He could live in NY or LA but he chooses to live in a desert town, with people that he likes alot. He doesn't want to be Kevin Hart level because he's one of the few genuine ones and to get to that level he would HAVE to sacrifice a lot of that. Maybe what he says would be bad advice to a 22 year old kid, but there's nothing wrong about his thinking here at all, imo

He says he's happy but for 99% of people, the endgame of severe alcoholism is either knock it off, death, or end up like Lady Di. And meanwhile it's not making anyone happy.

There are many reasons to disagree with Stanhope about drinking and AA but the main point is that you can look at most alcoholics and see that they aren't happy and they're on the road to ruin if they don't cut the shit.

Naltrexone and The Sinclair Method actually work.

Yes and people who use Naltrexone still go to AA since AA addresses lifestyle and what drove you to drink to begin with. That's why people go long term, any fucking rehab can help you quit the physical condition within like 2 weeks.

you don't have a clue what your talking about. I have a naltrexone script and don't go to AA. There is no detox with Sinclair Method, you just drink like you always do. it takes a awhile (1.5years for me) but eventually you lose interest in booze. AA is a lifestyle, a really shitty one if your prone to relapses. quit the "physical condition"... it's called withdraw, it sucks, but any seasoned drinker knows the lite beer, indica and Xanax trick.

AA is a lifestyle because it addresses people who have a lifestyle problem. It's not for people who just drink too much it's for people who have lost control and don't have a fucking year and a half to just wean it off chemically. Just because Jimmy uses it stupidly and wrongly doesn't mean it serves no purpose.

AA is for alcoholics, not for making people perfect. That's why they have Sex Addicts Anonymous. That's why they have Narcotics Anonymous. BUT "It's not for people who just drink too much it's for people who have lost control, people who have a lifestyle problem

you're right, i have absolutely no idea what i'm against in this situation.

What DOES that even mean? When I drink I'm a pretty heavy drinker. I'll have a 5th just shitposting on reddit if I'm feeling frisky. But when I'm not drinking I get more shit done. I have more zest and creativity and I can acknowledge that. But I still like drinking.

You have both in your life.

tss lemon zest out dat muug

Now that youre a woman do you enjoy appletinis and sex on the beach?

I know at least one person who stopped drinking but their behavior and attitude continues to be severely shitty because (i theorize) they're cranky that they can't have booze anymore. They stopped drinking but their alcohol addiction is still negatively effecting them.

I suspect that's what a dry drunk is. I won't actually read up on it because Jimmy is a faggot.

Alcohol is not the problem, Jim Norton's brain is no good.

Drinking isn't even that good. Pills are where it's at.

Pff AA? NA is where it's at!

Porque no los dos?

Yeah, I used to do that because I was a drinking champion on Adderall. But now I prefer the subtlety of a good Xanax or Percocet.

I'm bored and sober, not really in the mood to do anything productive. I like drinking and it will enhance my experience of browsing reddit.

Jimmy is at least correct when he says he has the mind of an addict. The problem is he thinks he needs to avoid booze instead of tranny cum.

So he says. Not saying he isn't gay, but he plays it up for the gimmick. He's not this tortured sex addict because he goes and gets rub n' tugs with bob kelly on the weekends

Jimmy should just become Chip full time. It's the only time he's tolerable these days.

I'm not saying if I go anywhere, I might do, might not, meetings are anonymous

That was final confirmation for me Jim was full of shit. They want you to tell addicts about AA if you want to be open. The anonymous part only means don't tell people the identities of members who attend. How does Jim think the sponsor thing works if Rule #1 about AA is don't talk about AA.

Actually, there's some weird 12-step rule that tells you NOT to tell people you're in it. Something about if you fall off the wagon, it'll convince people AA doesn't work.

<checks NA booklet>

I think it's a rule about length of sobriety before you can pitch it to alcoholics and offer to sponsor. Jim had been sober 38 years at the time of the Stanhope interview.

i thought that was our secret rule about watching it

Jim thinks AA is a secret society.

Being completely alone at 50 and having to take a medicine for homosexuals to avoid AIDs due to getting fucked in the ass by trannies on a regular basis = living life on life's terms I guess.

In Jim's opinion, he is a very interesting man.

It means if u have a beer ur an alcoholic. But also if I've never had a beer ur also an alcoholic

By his own logic then he should be able to go out and have a few beers.

Jim Norton freaked out and some faggot named "Lynn" when he called him a "Dry Drunk." Jimmy was very sensitive from that.

He means that without doing the 12 step program they'll never treat their underlying issues.
I did AA for 6 months. It was good for being an open environment to talk about your problems. But it attracts power mongers who wield the big blue book like its gospel.

Sober 5.5 years myself after 7 years of alcoholism.
AA wants you to give over all responsibility, I took on ALL responsibility instead and got sober.

I'm a dry drunk for sure....quit two years ago and debate drinking every other day.

Oh he has brought up ‘dry drunk’ dozens of times over the years. You can quit drinking but if your not in the cult your not sober.

Jimmy is not an addict. He's not in recovery. He doesn't have any proclivity to impulsive behavior. He's not a sex addict. He's not a porn addict. He's a gay man who's extremely boring. That's all.

Sounds like a dry drunk is an exception that disproves AA law.

I don't know about that, but Stanhope had the God part wrong. 12 step groups are not religious organizations. I believe it says "God, as we understood him". But basically it means "1) there is a higher power 2) you're not it".

I'm not debating if Jim ever really needed a 12 step group, but for people with real drug and alcohol problems, as far as I can tell, it's the best way to deal with it. Or at least has the greatest success rate. It saved lives of people I care a out so Stanhope fighting about it always bugged me.

I could be wrong. I thought I read that it had the best rate somewhere. Saved aot of friends and family of mine that would be dead otherwise. Some people can say "enough is enough", or "I'll just smoke weed from now on", and that works for them. I think those people are the minority, and 12 step groups are probably more effective for the remaining people.

theres both religious and non religious 12 step groups. unfortunately, the majority of affordable/free programs in the US are christian based, which fucks up your program from the start if your atheist. the main problem i've had with 12 steppin is when you relapse, its start over from the beginning. all the time and work erased. not too sure of the statistics but personally i can tell you the guilt felt from relapsing after you worked the book turns a "slip up" into a trip to the hospital.

Mention Sinclair Method or alternative treatments in group or meetings you will be shown the door or berated on how you're just giving yourself an excuse to use. That is the most fucked up thing about AA or 12 step.

In Greg Giraldo's documentary I saw a comment that explained it pretty well. The more intelligent you are the less likely it is that AA will work for you. Most of the guys who succeed with the program are the ones who don't question things and follow the steps blindly.

Reminder Brother Weez called Jim Norton "the smartest person in the room" that was occupied by Colin and Patrice.

Jim Norton is a dummy when it comes to anything that isnt sex or comedy.

But the Chippa is the shit, period

at this point i dont understand why jim doesnt start drinking and doing drugs.Hes a lonely man in his 50s

You're completely right about all of this but you garner downvotes because this sub is full of alkies who don't want to hear that drinking is terrible for them.