Opie is playing the greatest Kaufmen-esque character of all time. He's years deep in it, started since college. ALl of this, all of us, are just a part of his performance art. Nice try with the hate though.
He gives Roseanne some xanax on his video podcast and I know I read an excerpt from his book about abusing it.
edit
"I never told anyone about the book before. The only thing I can say is — how do I put this? — there's an enormous amount of liquid morphine being taken at the time."
and there is this anecdote from the norm sub:
Ever see his periscope videos? There was one where he was at a hotel talking to some employees in the middle of the night. Then he moved outside to the pool area. He was slurring incomprehensively and nodded off 3-4 times. Then he'd snap out of it and answer fan questions for a few mins and nod off again. It was cringeworthy. I think that's why he stopped periscoping.
he definitely takes a lot of xanax. i've watched nearly every norm interview on youtube, and there are quite a few where he's clearly on a heavy dose of some kind of depressant.
He's like Bill Murray. In another life he would be the slow-talking, slow-reacting, generally in all way slow car mechanic with a hang dog face and non expressive eyes. It's just who he is, not dissimilar from any random millions of midwest turds in this country. As a comic however these elements play for him because they give him an air of irony, indifference, coolness. People read that into him and he lets it become his persona.
Think of Doug Benson got into and made a professional career out of the role of a stoner just because of the chance fate that he was born with squinty, folded eyes that make him look stoned all the time. The characteristics came first without any effort or training, the persona was built around them. It's more hackey in Benson's case but it's the same thing.
Or think about how Steve Buscemi said he purposefully doesn't fix his fucked up teeth because it's what made him distinct and the 'weird' factor gets him work. MacDonald's neurologically-delayed personality that makes him do everything with a 0.5x speed filter is his equivalent of Steve Buscemi's teeth.
The reason he is making this rant is I think he knows on some level people perceive him this way and that his success (like Buscemi's teeth) is derived from this, whether he wants to admit it or not he is aware of it and this is him addressing it.
Everyone tells me how funny Norm is, I just don't personally find him funny, and I've listened to a lot of him. His homeless dog joke is brilliant though.
I used to not like him either, I think I started liking him after I realized he really is that guy you see slightly slurring and spaced out. It's not an act, he's not going for a character.
Norm's xanax excuse is like the wife walking into a door.
Norm has an addictive personality, my theory is that he does everything under the sun. Booze, alcohol, weed and anti-anxiety drugs. On periscope he had his teeth fixed too, so maybe he's a meth-head aswell.
This reminds me of when Patrice was talking about the infamous Charlie Sheen roast and he mentioned the smarmy not-trying-to-be-funny guy who interviewed him.
This leads to some "No true Scottsman" horseshit. I think I get Norm's point, but doing parodies and making fun of people (including comics) can be very funny.
I was wondering which comedians Norm was referring to specifically as 'anti-comics' and I can see how Neil Hamburger might fit the bill. I hope that's not who he's referring to...Hamburger is very unique and funny.
Yeah, it seems Norm took offense to being labeled something other than simply a comic so he labeled some other comics as non-comics in return. That's kind of hypocritical of him. Not that some hipsters don't deserve being called out for being "too cool for the room".
Mmmhmm. If a bunch of comics started thinking like Norm, you'd very quickly see witch hunts just like we have for racism and sexism. Norm should just call out the douchy hipsters for being douchy hipsters and leave it at that.
A joke isn't a shaggy dog joke just because it's long. Both of those jokes had actual punchlines. The point of a shaggy dog joke is it's long but doesn't have a punchline or at least has an incredibly underwhelming punchline.
The Chip cartoon is actually a great example of anticomedy. It's a cynical product that is designed to be popular with a tiny audience, but isn't necessarily designed to be funny. It's about getting attention, but it's not about earning that attention through comedy.
I love Tim and Eric but Tim's solo stuff doesn't interest me at all. He definitely does way too much of the purposely bad comedy and it just gets tiresome. I think Eric is stranger and more creative. The stuff he's directed is way out there.
I'm not entirely sure what anti-comedy is, but I'm pretty sure neither of those shows are it. Awesome Show is more or less supposed to be a low budget cable access show with all of the weird shows and commercials that you would see in the 80s or 90s. All of the weirdness surrounding it is just their style. But it definitely has a purpose and is meant to be a comedy, whether or not certain people find it funny.
Norm's right. It is a vague description of a subset of comics. I honestly have no idea of anyone fitting the bill.
What Norm's arguing is basically the intent behind the punchline. If its a intentionally weak punchline, the joke becomes the joke, its "meta" or "anti"..?
But the intent will always be to get a laugh.. So what the fuck is the difference?
I'm a Norm Autist who frequents his sub, but this makes little to no sense to me.. His Roast of Bob Saget was funny because it was so unfunny it made it like a Curb Your Enthusiasm levels of akward.
Andy Kaufman was a real life David Brent, he made shit akward, so you either had to hide your face in a pillow or hysterically laugh (like a near death experience).
I think Norm is reading way too much into shit that other people who reads way too much into shit wrote on the internet. If the intent is to make people laugh - its comedy. "Anti" and "meta" are just a genere of jokes, and i doubt any comedian really has ever had the balls to write a set trying to subvert joke-telling.. The only person who'd be crazy enough to do that would be Norm...
You're a Norm autist and you don't understand this?
Andy Kaufman was a real life David Brent, he made shit akward, so you either had to hide your face in a pillow or hysterically laugh (like a near death experience).
Andy also just played fun pranks on the audience- look at his incredible Elvis impersonation. That was a sincere imitation.
Andy had a weak set-up to an incredible punch-line. The opposite is the norm, i didnt think it relevant to even bring up. Name me two other weak set-ups to strong punch-lines and we'll talk.
I have watched a lot of his bits and documentaries over the years... I don't really see comedic brilliance (although that might be a matter of taste). Nice Elvis though
Beyond Norm, why the hell are Anthony Jeselnik or Neil Hamburger on that wiki page? They both do set up/punchline jokes, even if Neil Hamburger does it in character.
Jeselnik certainly isn't but Neil Hamburger surely is? Even though it's a character it's still anti-comedy. Half his jokes are designed to make you go "that joke sucked".
Norm's a fucking quack. He's a funny guy and I feel bad for having to repeat this every time I point out that he's fucking nuts. None of this made sense and neither does any of his philosophical babble about anything.
I know how to read tweets. You always start from the bottom. He's not doing much but arguing about semantics and apart from that he's not really saying much. Oddly enough this isn't even the first or last time he'll go on about labels all the while adding nothing of significance.
I love and respect Norm more than I care to admit, but you're right: when he starts waxing philosophical, things go off the rails pretty quickly. Quirky perspective is his comedic gift, but when it comes to thinking through an issue seriously, it's his achilles heel.
He talks about how anti-comedy isn't really comedy, it's critique...but his entire response is a critique of anti-comedy...and it's purposely "serious" and not funny at all.
Norm is a comic, and has been since the 80's. Just because he is different, i believe that people try to label him and that way they can put him in a metaphorical "meta" or "anti comic" box. This keeps things nice and neat, which is the way these types of folks like things to be. Humor, as most of us already know, is subjective. One of Norm's best talents was misdirection. You think he is gonna say one thing, and he says the unexpected, but in another way, completely obvious thing as the punchline. His time at the anchor desk on SNL had more then a couple of these jokes.
"O.J. Simpson did not spend Mothers Day with his children. When asked
about it he replied, 'Duh! Because I killed their mother!' "
...and my absolute favorite from Norm:
"In Virginia, police are looking for a stripper who stabbed a man for
telling her she was too fat to strip. Police warn that the woman is
armed and extremely fat."
This is comedy. Anti-comedy is found at Jeff Foxworthy shows, (You know you're a one joke comedian, when...) or that asshole with the puppets - the one who isn't Otto.
The whole thing struck me as an odd thing to be bothered by. If the whole thing is legit anyway. For example, heavy music bands almost take pride in starting some weird offshoot genre. There are way too many subgenres of metal. And here Norm is upset for being unique enough to require a whole new term to be thought up. I'm starting to think that he took the term of "anti-comedy" too literally as meaning that he's against comedy or smth. Wasn't there some meme of a rooster starting with a premise for a joke and then ending it with some literal shit. I mean people were eating that up and I've heard such purposefully unfunny jokes before the internet. It's a legit genre of jokes. They were called exactly that - "unfunny jokes". It doesn't make it anti-comedy but if I'd have to think of a name for those types of jokes and someone suggested "anti-comedy" it would definitely be something I'd consider.
For example, heavy music bands almost take pride in starting some weird offshoot genre. There are way too many subgenres of metal.
That's more on the metal fans than the bands themselves. The fans get all worked up about who is which specific subgenre and get into that tribe mentality about it. Most of the metal bands themselves tend to just look at themselves as metal bands. The guy from Amon Amarth said they're a rock band even though they do growling vocals and write a bunch of songs about Vikings.
It's partly true what you're saying. But keep in mind that the members of bands also come from those underground communities so a lot of them are into being labeled in some obscure way. Most don't care of course. My main point that it's not exactly frowned upon by bands if some stupid label sticks. Sure, you hear occasionally when some member of some band is bitching about "it's just metal" but then in the same breath bitch about nu-metal, deathcore, babymetal or whatever is the subgenre that everyone hates that day. It all boils down to the "not true scotsman" bullshit like some other guy said in this thread.
Edit: I could be wrong on this but for example Nile likes to pretend that they're Ithiphalic metal or smth. It's different band to band obviously.
Immanuel Kant famously philosophizes that comedy relies on surprising expectations. Kant might be speaking of the moth joke when he writes, "Laughter is an affection arising from the sudden transformation of a strained expectation into nothing."
I thought I heard Norm is starting up his podcast again, so he may be trying to get some attention for that. If you look up Norm jokes on youtube, you can find like 2 hours of him and guests reading jokes off cards on his podcast. His co-host is Adam Eget, and Norm would constantly say that Adam is trying some meta/anti comedy that "we wouldn't understand," but obviously Adam didn't write it. I learned of meta/anti comedy from Norm saying they are doing it. Those exact terms.
Edit: The roast Norm is talking about is when instead of being mean and brutal, he just read out of a joke book his dad gave him as a kid, which was supposed to be like jokes you say at a dinner party. That is some form of meta/anti comedy
To be honest, norm needs a new word for what he does. Maybe there isn't a word for it. If raging intellectual comedy was a person, his name would be norm MacDonald. And yes, he does anti comedy, if he was a true anti comic and just like Andy, wouldn't he say exactly what he's saying to cover his tracks. People just don't have the balls or gall to be like Andy or norm. Their character is their life and they commit to the grave. Nothing is off limits and the psyche of the human mind is their playground. This is why norm is my hero. For him, nothing matters, except comedy. Fuck society and what they tell you to be. No matter what, stay true.
yo man what would be amazing if we edited norms live oscar tweets into that oscar show, and put it up as video. if i had a screenshot like this from his oscar rant i would at least attempt to do it ( hard part being to place the tweets in the right moment in the show ). but fuck it, yolo, i like norm, i would do it.
I don't think so. I think if you asked him he would say David Cross is a comedian and behaves like a comedian. I look at characters like Neil Hamburger as the embodiment of what he is saying. Maybe even Chip Chipperson. I'm trying to figure out where a Steve Brule would sit with him, because Check It Out is fucking hilarious.
The odd thing is, meta comedy is mocking comedians and comedy in general, like they're being serious to mock comedy. But comedians would use comedy to mock serious things. The only way to mock comedy or comedians is to do it seriously and poorly. He kind of sums it up at the end that he just doesn't like this because it's making fun of something he loves, which just sounds bitchy.
The odd thing is, meta comedy is mocking comedians and comedy in general, like they're being serious to mock comedy.
Nah, Norm is basically saying anyone who uses the word (black) as a descriptor for a person is a racist.
If the intent of a joke (any joke) is to get a laugh, its comedy.
Like, as CQ has talked about, its not uncommon for comedians to intentionally do bad jokes just to have a good joke to counter the (manufactured) bomb. Why would bad punchlines played up for laughs be any different?
But, Norm lives and swims in Stand-Up comedy (he tours 300+ days a year), so i think he might have a different kind of insight than me.. But that also means he's like Spielberg critiquing a movie and talking about lighting, blocking and center of frame shit that any normal dude who hasnt directed anything but his hand to his dick, would know nothing about.
Yeah.. Col's twitter is a great insight into a problem that doesnt exist. Colin is the quintessential anti-comic on twitter, and you'll never find anything like it on any stage you have to pay to get in to see.
And thats even maybe being too generous to Col, because i think with most of his tweet he hopes to spread angre, not joy and laughter. I honestly believe most of them are written to annoy 3 comedians he knows. 1 of them is Jim.
I remember Oscars night a few years ago and Colin Quinn who I barely knew from O&A was tweeting his genius terrible tweets and I thought he was being legit. I cringed and felt embarrased for him for a few minutes until I figured out he was god-tier trolling. Then I was a convert.
Do comedians really think anyone gives a shit about "the business" of comedy? We listen to comedians to laugh at jokes, not to hear all of their dull insights into the ins and outs of being a "comic."
I actually love hearing about the business of comedy.
It's fascinating to learn how professions operate behind the scenes. For example, I never realized how common it is to make up and coming young comedians pay for the privilege of doing 5 minutes at comedy festivals. Or hearing about the auditioning process for TV shows and the bullshit people are put through in the remote chance that they can land a gig that will change their lives.
I also recently heard the story of how the comedy club in my town went out of business after the heating was shut off, and the owner tried to pay comedians in coke. Never read any of that in the local newspaper.
It's like the how it's made show. It's inherently interesting to know how others live.
I enjoy it too, and prime O&A was a great place to get stories about the business, when there were few other places where comedians could come on and tell stories like that.
tl;dr he's clearly drunk but there's no such thing as "anti-comedy"
It's a word dweebs invented to explain the popularity of Tim and Eric. That's literally the beginning and end of it. This is an old fart applying a new meme phrase to an era that he understands (kaufman/about 40 years ago) and the uppity genx/y upstarts of today
I would say definitely not, they seem to be good friends. Norm's only appearance on O&A was alongside Colin and, besides being hilarious, they talked about going shopping for clothes together.
You have a point about his delivery. But he definitely has humor. At least in my opinion. Kind of shitty that you're getting downvoted for a simple opinion
I don't think so. I think if you asked him he would say David Cross is a comedian and behaves like a comedian. I look at characters like Neil Hamburger as the embodiment of what he is saying. Maybe even Chip Chipperson. I'm trying to figure out where a Steve Brule would sit with him, because Check It Out is fucking hilarious.
The odd thing is, meta comedy is mocking comedians and comedy in general, like they're being serious to mock comedy. But comedians would use comedy to mock serious things. The only way to mock comedy or comedians is to do it seriously and poorly. He kind of sums it up at the end that he just doesn't like this because it's making fun of something he loves, which just sounds bitchy.
I actually love hearing about the business of comedy.
It's fascinating to learn how professions operate behind the scenes. For example, I never realized how common it is to make up and coming young comedians pay for the privilege of doing 5 minutes at comedy festivals. Or hearing about the auditioning process for TV shows and the bullshit people are put through in the remote chance that they can land a gig that will change their lives.
I also recently heard the story of how the comedy club in my town went out of business after the heating was shut off, and the owner tried to pay comedians in coke. Never read any of that in the local newspaper.
It's like the how it's made show. It's inherently interesting to know how others live.
151 comments
49 Binski13 2016-08-10
I guarantee you Opie fashions himself as a anti comic or meta comic.
25 goo-gobbler 2016-08-10
Let's hope he ends up like Andy Kaufman then
8 EncinoEscobar 2016-08-10
Bobby Lee should performs the psychic surgery
14 User234524352345 2016-08-10
He's the best anti-comic i've ever heard......
2 Really_Big_Dummy 2016-08-10
Opie is playing the greatest Kaufmen-esque character of all time. He's years deep in it, started since college. ALl of this, all of us, are just a part of his performance art. Nice try with the hate though.
3 breadmoccasin 2016-08-10
ME:Love to make people Uncomfortabable.
44 dankfranklin 2016-08-10
Norm is one of the funniest people ever but he's also a xanaxed-out weirdo
18 [deleted] 2016-08-10
Nah, he's sober, but he is very, very strange. I can't wait for his book to see if he can explain some off things about him.
8 goo-gobbler 2016-08-10
I heard somewhere that he does take heavy meds. I have no proof to offer.
11 DyedInkSun 2016-08-10
He gives Roseanne some xanax on his video podcast and I know I read an excerpt from his book about abusing it.
edit
and there is this anecdote from the norm sub:
9 ChippusMaximus 2016-08-10
I heard it from you.
3 campee 2016-08-10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Yb0E-SNkXA
2 ManHash 2016-08-10
Norm is an enigma!
2 mlovelam 2016-08-10
he definitely takes a lot of xanax. i've watched nearly every norm interview on youtube, and there are quite a few where he's clearly on a heavy dose of some kind of depressant.
1 [deleted] 2016-08-10
[deleted]
4 dankfranklin 2016-08-10
Could have sworn he literally threw a handful of xanax at Roseanne on his podcast
1 HologramChicken 2016-08-10
To be fair, he gave her one pill, and told her to only take half of it.
4 belizeanheat 2016-08-10
He 100% takes Xanax, and on occasion, it's abundantly clear when he's taken what you might call a "heavy dose"
3 jarjarjelly 2016-08-10
He's like Bill Murray. In another life he would be the slow-talking, slow-reacting, generally in all way slow car mechanic with a hang dog face and non expressive eyes. It's just who he is, not dissimilar from any random millions of midwest turds in this country. As a comic however these elements play for him because they give him an air of irony, indifference, coolness. People read that into him and he lets it become his persona.
Think of Doug Benson got into and made a professional career out of the role of a stoner just because of the chance fate that he was born with squinty, folded eyes that make him look stoned all the time. The characteristics came first without any effort or training, the persona was built around them. It's more hackey in Benson's case but it's the same thing.
Or think about how Steve Buscemi said he purposefully doesn't fix his fucked up teeth because it's what made him distinct and the 'weird' factor gets him work. MacDonald's neurologically-delayed personality that makes him do everything with a 0.5x speed filter is his equivalent of Steve Buscemi's teeth.
The reason he is making this rant is I think he knows on some level people perceive him this way and that his success (like Buscemi's teeth) is derived from this, whether he wants to admit it or not he is aware of it and this is him addressing it.
5 deegan258 2016-08-10
I agree, but I don't think he feeds into anti-comedy with those elements of his personality. I think a lot of people misread it as such.
-4 PhiWeaver 2016-08-10
Everyone tells me how funny Norm is, I just don't personally find him funny, and I've listened to a lot of him. His homeless dog joke is brilliant though.
5 LacanZizekFreud 2016-08-10
I used to not like him either, I think I started liking him after I realized he really is that guy you see slightly slurring and spaced out. It's not an act, he's not going for a character.
-6 User234524352345 2016-08-10
Norm's xanax excuse is like the wife walking into a door.
Norm has an addictive personality, my theory is that he does everything under the sun. Booze, alcohol, weed and anti-anxiety drugs. On periscope he had his teeth fixed too, so maybe he's a meth-head aswell.
3 [deleted] 2016-08-10
[deleted]
-1 User234524352345 2016-08-10
I'm not yoking ya fuck!
41 spicysandwich80 2016-08-10
This reminds me of when Patrice was talking about the infamous Charlie Sheen roast and he mentioned the smarmy not-trying-to-be-funny guy who interviewed him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qj1d6MNKTk
10 DiamondDave1984 2016-08-10
Exactly. My first thought while reading the tweets was of the Workaholics guys. It's a funny show but I would never care to see Adam Devine's standup.
4 F_F_III 2016-08-10
If it makes you feel any better Ive seen his stand up and it's not anti comedy. It's not very good, but it's not even close to anti comedy.
-1 TotallyNotObsi 2016-08-10
Link to actual interview.
37 MartyVanB 2016-08-10
Comedy is such an incredibly hard art to understand for civilians like myself. I appreciate him taking the time to drop that on us
12 I-take-beast-shits 2016-08-10
I'm working hard on getting my PHD in funny just so I can relate to these guys. Unfortunately my GPA has been rather lack luster.
8 goo-gobbler 2016-08-10
Funny word. You'll get there, keep at 'er!
0 late_50s_why 2016-08-10
You can never call yourself a veteran until you tasted battle, stare the eyes of civilians before you take the kill
21 RSC-Tuff 2016-08-10
This leads to some "No true Scottsman" horseshit. I think I get Norm's point, but doing parodies and making fun of people (including comics) can be very funny.
8 Bick_Bickerson 2016-08-10
Neil Hamburger is a great example of this. Dude's a genius.
3 Rodstewartswig 2016-08-10
I was wondering which comedians Norm was referring to specifically as 'anti-comics' and I can see how Neil Hamburger might fit the bill. I hope that's not who he's referring to...Hamburger is very unique and funny.
4 Bick_Bickerson 2016-08-10
Just popped in my head, from his "fifty states, fifty jokes" cd:
"In what state did my now ex-wife first sleep with the dentist to whom she is currently engaged?
I don't know, but when I see her in court, ALASKA!"
1 [deleted] 2016-08-10
[deleted]
3 AmberBeard 2016-08-10
Yeah, it seems Norm took offense to being labeled something other than simply a comic so he labeled some other comics as non-comics in return. That's kind of hypocritical of him. Not that some hipsters don't deserve being called out for being "too cool for the room".
4 RSC-Tuff 2016-08-10
Mmmhmm. If a bunch of comics started thinking like Norm, you'd very quickly see witch hunts just like we have for racism and sexism. Norm should just call out the douchy hipsters for being douchy hipsters and leave it at that.
0 CRC33 2016-08-10
Norm doesn't get offended. He's throwing people off the scent from figuring him out
18 fervt 2016-08-10
It's so meta to say you're not an anti-comic.
14 pleasure2kill 2016-08-10
A real anti-anti-comic
17 swanal 2016-08-10
Yeah I really wouldn't mind decapitating Andy Kindler a time or two
2 red19fire 2016-08-10
But he's a comic's comic! He gives the 'state of the comedy industry' speech!
comic's comic is shorthand for 'audiences don't laugh'.
12 makrate 2016-08-10
fuck... I read it from top to bottom.
22 bonniesretardsister 2016-08-10
You're a real piece of shit, buddy.
2 fingerrockets 2016-08-10
I hope his dinner is a bowl of cold corn.
1 SNAPINTOASLIMJIMOHYE 2016-08-10
Well that doesn't sound bad at all.
7 Elagens 2016-08-10
All of Norm's jokes are palindromes. Very meta.
1 CRC33 2016-08-10
Norm is putting on
1 [deleted] 2016-08-10
[deleted]
10 ARealBlueFalcon 2016-08-10
The goddamn moth joke was brilliant
5 lemskroob 2016-08-10
Swedish Andy Richter isnt bad, either. Norm says they aren't shaggy dog jokes, but they are shaggy dog jokes.
0 BroccoliManChild 2016-08-10
A joke isn't a shaggy dog joke just because it's long. Both of those jokes had actual punchlines. The point of a shaggy dog joke is it's long but doesn't have a punchline or at least has an incredibly underwhelming punchline.
4 [deleted] 2016-08-10
[deleted]
10 StraponSally 2016-08-10
Where does Chip Chipperson fall into this?
Jimmy using Chip makes for some really hilarious moments. Of course, the only medium it works is radio, but still...
8 [deleted] 2016-08-10
Chip isn't anti-comedy, it's just a character of an awkward unfunny irritating moron.
He's not deconstructing the idea of jokes. He's just making conversations awkward and embarassing.
2 deegan258 2016-08-10
The fact is that it had a punchline, though.
1 FloggingTheHorses 2016-08-10
That's true, it's the situation more than the content.
3 apalehorse 2016-08-10
The Chip cartoon is actually a great example of anticomedy. It's a cynical product that is designed to be popular with a tiny audience, but isn't necessarily designed to be funny. It's about getting attention, but it's not about earning that attention through comedy.
1 cabaretcabaret 2016-08-10
Chip is funny, but it's just become a catchphrase.
0 ChippusMaximus 2016-08-10
DON'T GOOOO THEEEERE!
8 corwinkyahern 2016-08-10
when he said he won't name names ... was he referring to tim and eric? i find them hilarious..
10 andiswearrrr 2016-08-10
I always thought he was referring to Tim, since he does stand-up with purposely bad jokes.
3 Leofan7 2016-08-10
Eric has always been the comedic force of the duo. Tim's good, but usually just compliments Eric.
10 BoardroomBimmy 2016-08-10
I love Tim and Eric but Tim's solo stuff doesn't interest me at all. He definitely does way too much of the purposely bad comedy and it just gets tiresome. I think Eric is stranger and more creative. The stuff he's directed is way out there.
6 Buttpudding 2016-08-10
Would have thought he was talking about kindler
3 FloggingTheHorses 2016-08-10
Is that what anti-comedy is? But isn't "the Awesome Show" and "Check it Out with Steve Brule" supposed to be funny? I find both hilarious
3 BoardroomBimmy 2016-08-10
I'm not entirely sure what anti-comedy is, but I'm pretty sure neither of those shows are it. Awesome Show is more or less supposed to be a low budget cable access show with all of the weird shows and commercials that you would see in the 80s or 90s. All of the weirdness surrounding it is just their style. But it definitely has a purpose and is meant to be a comedy, whether or not certain people find it funny.
2 [deleted] 2016-08-10
Yes.
2 TedsEmporiumEmporium 2016-08-10
I'm unaware of Tim's stand up, but Awesome Show is definitely not anti-comedy.
8 User234524352345 2016-08-10
Norm's right. It is a vague description of a subset of comics. I honestly have no idea of anyone fitting the bill.
What Norm's arguing is basically the intent behind the punchline. If its a intentionally weak punchline, the joke becomes the joke, its "meta" or "anti"..?
But the intent will always be to get a laugh.. So what the fuck is the difference?
I'm a Norm Autist who frequents his sub, but this makes little to no sense to me.. His Roast of Bob Saget was funny because it was so unfunny it made it like a Curb Your Enthusiasm levels of akward.
Andy Kaufman was a real life David Brent, he made shit akward, so you either had to hide your face in a pillow or hysterically laugh (like a near death experience).
I think Norm is reading way too much into shit that other people who reads way too much into shit wrote on the internet. If the intent is to make people laugh - its comedy. "Anti" and "meta" are just a genere of jokes, and i doubt any comedian really has ever had the balls to write a set trying to subvert joke-telling.. The only person who'd be crazy enough to do that would be Norm...
2 [deleted] 2016-08-10
You're a Norm autist and you don't understand this?
Andy also just played fun pranks on the audience- look at his incredible Elvis impersonation. That was a sincere imitation.
1 User234524352345 2016-08-10
Whats not to understand?
Andy had a weak set-up to an incredible punch-line. The opposite is the norm, i didnt think it relevant to even bring up. Name me two other weak set-ups to strong punch-lines and we'll talk.
2 SNAPINTOASLIMJIMOHYE 2016-08-10
Does Weimar Germany count?
8 Ramoooone 2016-08-10
I think bill burr had the same opinion https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3CQmzbmV7j0
4 eastriverdriveII 2016-08-10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE6QzDrT_x8
4 RamonFrunkis 2016-08-10
Conan is where all the great comics go! HAAAA!
ilearnedthehardwayyoucan'tsaysexonadategirlshatethatit'slikesayingbombattheairportthewholethingshutsdownit'sweirdwealllikesexitfeelsgoodbutyoucan'tbringituptheonlywaytogetthethingyouwantistopretendlikeyoudon'twantitthat'sweirdbehaviorwhatifjobinterviewswerelikethatsomarkwhydoyouwanttoworkherepfffwhosaysiwanttoworkhere
-2 PassProtect15 2016-08-10
Conan: a-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha
Man, late night TV sucks.
Anywho, Norm is splitting hairs here.
4 thissiteruinedme 2016-08-10
Andy Kaufman was shit. I don't for the life of me understand what people saw in him.
6 [deleted] 2016-08-10
Andy was a prankster- he was funny, and he had a lot of talent- simple as that.
It was good natured and had showmanship to it. It's vaudeville
1 ChurchOfBaldOpie 2016-08-10
I have watched a lot of his bits and documentaries over the years... I don't really see comedic brilliance (although that might be a matter of taste). Nice Elvis though
1 SNAPINTOASLIMJIMOHYE 2016-08-10
You ever watch My Breakfast with Blassie?
4 callmesnake13 2016-08-10
Beyond Norm, why the hell are Anthony Jeselnik or Neil Hamburger on that wiki page? They both do set up/punchline jokes, even if Neil Hamburger does it in character.
3 panasonictooth 2016-08-10
Jeselnik certainly isn't but Neil Hamburger surely is? Even though it's a character it's still anti-comedy. Half his jokes are designed to make you go "that joke sucked".
5 callmesnake13 2016-08-10
"Why did Michael Jackson hang his baby out the window? . . . (clears throat) . . . Because he wouldn't eat his plate of cum"
Pure comedy!
5 panasonictooth 2016-08-10
"How do you stop Santana from molesting children? Put a guitar in his hands!" is one of my favorites.
4 Bazampi 2016-08-10
Norm's a fucking quack. He's a funny guy and I feel bad for having to repeat this every time I point out that he's fucking nuts. None of this made sense and neither does any of his philosophical babble about anything.
3 Noname_Maddox 2016-08-10
Read it from bottom to top. You probably read it in the wrong direction bro.
1 Bazampi 2016-08-10
I know how to read tweets. You always start from the bottom. He's not doing much but arguing about semantics and apart from that he's not really saying much. Oddly enough this isn't even the first or last time he'll go on about labels all the while adding nothing of significance.
3 Rodstewartswig 2016-08-10
I love and respect Norm more than I care to admit, but you're right: when he starts waxing philosophical, things go off the rails pretty quickly. Quirky perspective is his comedic gift, but when it comes to thinking through an issue seriously, it's his achilles heel.
3 JeremyACrosby 2016-08-10
I love Norm
3 ckb614 2016-08-10
Literally doing anticomedy to explain how he doesn't do anticomedy. That's about as meta as it gets
5 [deleted] 2016-08-10
How is he doing anticomedy? It's a serious Twitter explanation.
13 AzraelApollyon 2016-08-10
That's kind of the point. When did comics start taking themselves so seriously? Who gives a fuck if you were labeled or not?
8 jayriemenschneider 2016-08-10
He talks about how anti-comedy isn't really comedy, it's critique...but his entire response is a critique of anti-comedy...and it's purposely "serious" and not funny at all.
1 [deleted] 2016-08-10
[deleted]
0 SNAPINTOASLIMJIMOHYE 2016-08-10
You just don't understand it.
2 [deleted] 2016-08-10
Yes I did. Norm loves comedy and hates anyone that makes fun of it.
0 SNAPINTOASLIMJIMOHYE 2016-08-10
Woosh!
-2 ckb614 2016-08-10
Yes very serious.
1 [deleted] 2016-08-10
Yes.
3 Spankywzl 2016-08-10
Norm is a comic, and has been since the 80's. Just because he is different, i believe that people try to label him and that way they can put him in a metaphorical "meta" or "anti comic" box. This keeps things nice and neat, which is the way these types of folks like things to be. Humor, as most of us already know, is subjective. One of Norm's best talents was misdirection. You think he is gonna say one thing, and he says the unexpected, but in another way, completely obvious thing as the punchline. His time at the anchor desk on SNL had more then a couple of these jokes. "O.J. Simpson did not spend Mothers Day with his children. When asked about it he replied, 'Duh! Because I killed their mother!' " ...and my absolute favorite from Norm: "In Virginia, police are looking for a stripper who stabbed a man for telling her she was too fat to strip. Police warn that the woman is armed and extremely fat." This is comedy. Anti-comedy is found at Jeff Foxworthy shows, (You know you're a one joke comedian, when...) or that asshole with the puppets - the one who isn't Otto.
2 Leeham721 2016-08-10
TIL "anti-comedy" is an insult and not just a form of "comedy".
I also didn't read all of that shit so fuck me if I got it wrong.
2 AmberBeard 2016-08-10
The whole thing struck me as an odd thing to be bothered by. If the whole thing is legit anyway. For example, heavy music bands almost take pride in starting some weird offshoot genre. There are way too many subgenres of metal. And here Norm is upset for being unique enough to require a whole new term to be thought up. I'm starting to think that he took the term of "anti-comedy" too literally as meaning that he's against comedy or smth. Wasn't there some meme of a rooster starting with a premise for a joke and then ending it with some literal shit. I mean people were eating that up and I've heard such purposefully unfunny jokes before the internet. It's a legit genre of jokes. They were called exactly that - "unfunny jokes". It doesn't make it anti-comedy but if I'd have to think of a name for those types of jokes and someone suggested "anti-comedy" it would definitely be something I'd consider.
1 BoardroomBimmy 2016-08-10
That's more on the metal fans than the bands themselves. The fans get all worked up about who is which specific subgenre and get into that tribe mentality about it. Most of the metal bands themselves tend to just look at themselves as metal bands. The guy from Amon Amarth said they're a rock band even though they do growling vocals and write a bunch of songs about Vikings.
1 AmberBeard 2016-08-10
It's partly true what you're saying. But keep in mind that the members of bands also come from those underground communities so a lot of them are into being labeled in some obscure way. Most don't care of course. My main point that it's not exactly frowned upon by bands if some stupid label sticks. Sure, you hear occasionally when some member of some band is bitching about "it's just metal" but then in the same breath bitch about nu-metal, deathcore, babymetal or whatever is the subgenre that everyone hates that day. It all boils down to the "not true scotsman" bullshit like some other guy said in this thread.
Edit: I could be wrong on this but for example Nile likes to pretend that they're Ithiphalic metal or smth. It's different band to band obviously.
1 red19fire 2016-08-10
If you continue to talk smack about my favorite Post-Melodic Pop-adjacent CrabCore Punk music, we're going to have some problems.
2 Spokker 2016-08-10
And it says a lot about this fucking asshole bloggers who think they know better than everyone else.
2 DryTeeth 2016-08-10
How did I let Norm MacDonald's greatness slip by me after all these years. This fucking guy...Norm is on point about everything.
2 DryTeeth 2016-08-10
Doesn't make this any less interesting I guess...but this does appear to be over 2 years old:
http://thecomicscomic.com/2014/05/12/norm-macdonald-neither-anti-comic-nor-comics-comic-simply-a-comic/
2 Rodstewartswig 2016-08-10
Immanuel Kant famously philosophizes that comedy relies on surprising expectations. Kant might be speaking of the moth joke when he writes, "Laughter is an affection arising from the sudden transformation of a strained expectation into nothing."
1 Really_Big_Dummy 2016-08-10
He's talking about Opie.
1 MaxKawalski 2016-08-10
Ohhh shit!
1 TotesMessenger 2016-08-10
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1 [deleted] 2016-08-10
[deleted]
1 whatisthishere 2016-08-10
I thought I heard Norm is starting up his podcast again, so he may be trying to get some attention for that. If you look up Norm jokes on youtube, you can find like 2 hours of him and guests reading jokes off cards on his podcast. His co-host is Adam Eget, and Norm would constantly say that Adam is trying some meta/anti comedy that "we wouldn't understand," but obviously Adam didn't write it. I learned of meta/anti comedy from Norm saying they are doing it. Those exact terms.
Edit: The roast Norm is talking about is when instead of being mean and brutal, he just read out of a joke book his dad gave him as a kid, which was supposed to be like jokes you say at a dinner party. That is some form of meta/anti comedy
1 [deleted] 2016-08-10
[deleted]
1 Balake123 2016-08-10
He got me with Andy Kaufman. Norm is so right.
1 CRC33 2016-08-10
To be honest, norm needs a new word for what he does. Maybe there isn't a word for it. If raging intellectual comedy was a person, his name would be norm MacDonald. And yes, he does anti comedy, if he was a true anti comic and just like Andy, wouldn't he say exactly what he's saying to cover his tracks. People just don't have the balls or gall to be like Andy or norm. Their character is their life and they commit to the grave. Nothing is off limits and the psyche of the human mind is their playground. This is why norm is my hero. For him, nothing matters, except comedy. Fuck society and what they tell you to be. No matter what, stay true.
1 HookerMouth82 2016-08-10
Only Reddit can describe Norm in a way that makes him seem like an autistic faggot.
1 [deleted] 2016-08-10
Norm is just a traditional standup comic.
1 Fiddlerino 2016-08-10
yo man what would be amazing if we edited norms live oscar tweets into that oscar show, and put it up as video. if i had a screenshot like this from his oscar rant i would at least attempt to do it ( hard part being to place the tweets in the right moment in the show ). but fuck it, yolo, i like norm, i would do it.
1 [deleted] 2016-08-10
[deleted]
1 Superbad415 2016-08-10
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/661a77b3da/norm-macdonald-trolls-the-bob-saget-roast?_cc=__d___&_ccid=a305408e-f7e5-4dde-9adb-0a4e087bbc03
0 JeffDenlon 2016-08-10
Norm basically making fun of David Cross and all "alternative" comics
15 truthie 2016-08-10
Nah, David Cross is a pretty traditional joke-teller and writer.
6 User234524352345 2016-08-10
Being an analrapist is not common though..
10 TriangleDimes 2016-08-10
I don't think so. I think if you asked him he would say David Cross is a comedian and behaves like a comedian. I look at characters like Neil Hamburger as the embodiment of what he is saying. Maybe even Chip Chipperson. I'm trying to figure out where a Steve Brule would sit with him, because Check It Out is fucking hilarious.
The odd thing is, meta comedy is mocking comedians and comedy in general, like they're being serious to mock comedy. But comedians would use comedy to mock serious things. The only way to mock comedy or comedians is to do it seriously and poorly. He kind of sums it up at the end that he just doesn't like this because it's making fun of something he loves, which just sounds bitchy.
8 EskimoEscrow 2016-08-10
Tim Heidecker has the same opinions on "anti-comedy" as Norm does. I saw it in an interview recently.
3 panasonictooth 2016-08-10
Unless I'm unclear on what anti-comedy is, Heidecker's stand up is 100% anti-comedy.
2 User234524352345 2016-08-10
Nah, Norm is basically saying anyone who uses the word (black) as a descriptor for a person is a racist.
If the intent of a joke (any joke) is to get a laugh, its comedy.
Like, as CQ has talked about, its not uncommon for comedians to intentionally do bad jokes just to have a good joke to counter the (manufactured) bomb. Why would bad punchlines played up for laughs be any different?
But, Norm lives and swims in Stand-Up comedy (he tours 300+ days a year), so i think he might have a different kind of insight than me.. But that also means he's like Spielberg critiquing a movie and talking about lighting, blocking and center of frame shit that any normal dude who hasnt directed anything but his hand to his dick, would know nothing about.
3 TriangleDimes 2016-08-10
It would help if he provided even one example, because reading that it sounds like he'd hate Colin's Twitter personality, or Chip.
3 User234524352345 2016-08-10
Yeah.. Col's twitter is a great insight into a problem that doesnt exist. Colin is the quintessential anti-comic on twitter, and you'll never find anything like it on any stage you have to pay to get in to see.
And thats even maybe being too generous to Col, because i think with most of his tweet he hopes to spread angre, not joy and laughter. I honestly believe most of them are written to annoy 3 comedians he knows. 1 of them is Jim.
1 panasonictooth 2016-08-10
I remember Oscars night a few years ago and Colin Quinn who I barely knew from O&A was tweeting his genius terrible tweets and I thought he was being legit. I cringed and felt embarrased for him for a few minutes until I figured out he was god-tier trolling. Then I was a convert.
0 [deleted] 2016-08-10
[deleted]
-1 pleasure2kill 2016-08-10
Do comedians really think anyone gives a shit about "the business" of comedy? We listen to comedians to laugh at jokes, not to hear all of their dull insights into the ins and outs of being a "comic."
18 BigGreenYamo 2016-08-10
Spoken like a true "civilian".
8 ihaveaholeinmyass 2016-08-10
Pfft... He has no idea what it's like to be in the trenches, paying for sodas and eating off the bar menu
6 dannygunz 2016-08-10
He says posting on a subreddit that talks non-stop about the business of comedy.
-3 pleasure2kill 2016-08-10
If that's what you call shitposting, sure
3 apalehorse 2016-08-10
I actually love hearing about the business of comedy.
It's fascinating to learn how professions operate behind the scenes. For example, I never realized how common it is to make up and coming young comedians pay for the privilege of doing 5 minutes at comedy festivals. Or hearing about the auditioning process for TV shows and the bullshit people are put through in the remote chance that they can land a gig that will change their lives.
I also recently heard the story of how the comedy club in my town went out of business after the heating was shut off, and the owner tried to pay comedians in coke. Never read any of that in the local newspaper.
It's like the how it's made show. It's inherently interesting to know how others live.
2 lemskroob 2016-08-10
I enjoy it too, and prime O&A was a great place to get stories about the business, when there were few other places where comedians could come on and tell stories like that.
-2 [deleted] 2016-08-10
I don't write essays on twitter, and I hate people that do. they are my enemy.
6 noamshouseparty 2016-08-10
You could have just stopped after four words
-2 FaggotBannedKeith 2016-08-10
Really like Norm, but spare me your fucking lecturing if it's a possible slight on Neil Hamburger.
-2 jarjarjelly 2016-08-10
tl;dr he's clearly drunk but there's no such thing as "anti-comedy"
It's a word dweebs invented to explain the popularity of Tim and Eric. That's literally the beginning and end of it. This is an old fart applying a new meme phrase to an era that he understands (kaufman/about 40 years ago) and the uppity genx/y upstarts of today
-2 Mr702law 2016-08-10
Norm is a poor mans Jim Florentine.
-3 Anarox 2016-08-10
Is this nigga talking about Colin a bit? Was it just me who got that vibe? What a elitist asshole, how the fuck is the moth joke in it self funny?
7 [deleted] 2016-08-10
No, he's talking about Tim & Eric and Neil Hamburger. Every seen Tim Heidecker's stand-up?
-2 Anarox 2016-08-10
Nope, sounds horrible just from the names
7 noamshouseparty 2016-08-10
I would say definitely not, they seem to be good friends. Norm's only appearance on O&A was alongside Colin and, besides being hilarious, they talked about going shopping for clothes together.
-3 Phantas_Magorical 2016-08-10
I like Norm a lot, but he's wrong
-4 Doc_McCoy79 2016-08-10
What rambling fucking navel-gazing. Get over yourself, sir.
-7 georgie_best 2016-08-10
Comments in this thread illustrate how much people in this sub really don't like the mirror turning on themselves
Youre all basically opie
12 BoardroomBimmy 2016-08-10
Not you, though. You're different.
-5 georgie_best 2016-08-10
Yep :)
-13 Excavatetheinfo 2016-08-10
I am pretty sure that Norm is not actually funny, but that his weird delivery just confuses people to think he is.
6 ChurchOfBaldOpie 2016-08-10
You have a point about his delivery. But he definitely has humor. At least in my opinion. Kind of shitty that you're getting downvoted for a simple opinion
1 [deleted] 2016-08-10
[deleted]
1 oldchunkofcoal 2016-08-10
How can he not be funny if he confuses people to think he's funny? You proved he's still funny regardless of the method.
10 TriangleDimes 2016-08-10
I don't think so. I think if you asked him he would say David Cross is a comedian and behaves like a comedian. I look at characters like Neil Hamburger as the embodiment of what he is saying. Maybe even Chip Chipperson. I'm trying to figure out where a Steve Brule would sit with him, because Check It Out is fucking hilarious.
The odd thing is, meta comedy is mocking comedians and comedy in general, like they're being serious to mock comedy. But comedians would use comedy to mock serious things. The only way to mock comedy or comedians is to do it seriously and poorly. He kind of sums it up at the end that he just doesn't like this because it's making fun of something he loves, which just sounds bitchy.
15 truthie 2016-08-10
Nah, David Cross is a pretty traditional joke-teller and writer.
18 BigGreenYamo 2016-08-10
Spoken like a true "civilian".
6 dannygunz 2016-08-10
He says posting on a subreddit that talks non-stop about the business of comedy.
-3 pleasure2kill 2016-08-10
If that's what you call shitposting, sure
3 apalehorse 2016-08-10
I actually love hearing about the business of comedy.
It's fascinating to learn how professions operate behind the scenes. For example, I never realized how common it is to make up and coming young comedians pay for the privilege of doing 5 minutes at comedy festivals. Or hearing about the auditioning process for TV shows and the bullshit people are put through in the remote chance that they can land a gig that will change their lives.
I also recently heard the story of how the comedy club in my town went out of business after the heating was shut off, and the owner tried to pay comedians in coke. Never read any of that in the local newspaper.
It's like the how it's made show. It's inherently interesting to know how others live.
2 [deleted] 2016-08-10
Yes I did. Norm loves comedy and hates anyone that makes fun of it.
0 SNAPINTOASLIMJIMOHYE 2016-08-10
Woosh!