And then what happened

Jimmy has probably never made a Simpsons reference ever.

That's the biggest counter to this, in my opinion. That's way too deep a reference for Jim.

I think your tin foil hat may be too tight.

ALL GOOD SPELLERS ARE NOW SUSPECT

I've been Dennis Falcone all along. As for the Simpsons reference, well here's Jessica Simpson's 1999 hit from Columbia records "I Wanna Love You Forever"

I was on, but now I'm gone.

Ok Terrific

Right after, Jimmy tweeted out saying that 13_Euclid was a moron. If you read Euclid's post carefully, aside from a few spelling errors, it was written well. Now, we all now that Lil' Yimmy is a terrific writer. 13_Euclid's account was deleted shortly after the post came out.

1. It wasn't "right after". It was months later.

2. He didn't say 13_Euclid was a moron, he said he was a fake and anyone who believed it was a moron.

3. The 13_Euclid account isn't deleted; it's posts were removed.

4. The post had a large number of spelling and grammatical errors.

You got pretty much everything wrong.

And what was that?

Wait, that fucker isn't a walker in the book. Unless I missed it. Is that what's happening in the show?

No, he's posting theories. None of them are well-supported.

Right. So Howland Reed (who comes from one of the families with the deepest roots to the North who worship the Old Gods) is the High Sparrow (who devoutly worships the seven gods) ... why exactly? Because the books describe their hands as dirty and small?

Jon Snow is resurrected, but you don't even know he's dead yet.

Bitch, please. Anyone can speculate. I want quotes from the books that show that. You can't because you know the support is weak at best.

Jon Snow, that nigga dead. He wargs into ghost. Then he gets revived and is relieved of his vows to the Nights Watch because he technically died.

1. The books don't say that Jon Snow is dead.
2. Judging how the fans reacted to Lady Stoneheart, I sincerely doubt GRRM is going to pull that off two times.

The Reeds live in Greywater Watch, which is a "moving" castle located in the neck. Which is where the sparrows started before moving south to kings landing. Howland becomes the high sparrow to get rid of the Lannisters from the throne

1. The books don't say that the Sparrows started at Greywater Watch. Sparrows started across Westeros as a response to the wars.

2. Howland Reed would be recognized by people in the city. He is the lord of one the biggest houses in the North

3. Howland Reed worships a completely different set of gods. The High Sparrow is depicted as extremely devout to the seven gods,

4. Crannogmen are essentially savages from the swamps. The High Sparrow is depicted in the show and the books as a sophisticated septon, extremely knowledgeable about the gods.

5. Howland Reed sent out his own heirs to Winterfell. What you're saying would require that he abandon his own house and leave it without his children to look after it.

You're right...but dat bitch is dead.

I'm glad we both know I'm right.

Are you saying that the fans hate the Lady Stoneheart story-line (For those of you who don't know, LSH is Cat Stark brought back to life by Beric Dondarrion)? Because D&D got a shit ton of backlash for not using her story-line in the show.

I'm saying GRRM got mixed responses for resurrecting characters, which is a very controversial plot device. Using it often is not a good thing.

I never said that the Sparrows started at Greywater Watch. I said it started around the neck. (I'm not gonna quote ASOIAF bro, it's easily looked up on the google.)

Then go ahead and look it up on google. I don't remember it starting in the Neck. In fact, the only time anybody resembling the High Sparrow is described, he's described as descending coming the Riverlands, where most of the fighting took place (and therefore where the Sparrows would be formed from watching all the violence/suffering). The higher up North you go the less likely it is the Sparrows would form since Sparrows worship other gods... Even if Howland Reed were faking, the other Sparrows are not... How is he going to get so many followers in the North?

Howland Reed hasn't been seen since Robert's Rebellion when he went with Ned Stark down to Dorne at the Tower of Joy. Greywater Watch is a moving castle that even ravens can't find, so it's not a big house.

I know. He would still be recognized. By house I mean House Reed. They are one of the biggest houses in the North, next to House Starks. We're not talking about a minor house where it's lord would be ignored or forgotten.

Yes, the Reeds worship the old gods. But Howland disguises himself as a follower of The Seven to bring back the Faith Militant so he can take over Kings Landing.

You didn't address what I said, you just reiterated the same thing that doesn't make sense... The reason why it doesn't make sense that he would disguise himself is that he doesn't know those Gods and the rituals required to be a High Septon well enough to pull it off - let alone pull off one that is probably the most devout in the whole kingdom.

Though this is true, however, Howland Reed is not like this. He was beaten up at the tourney of Harrenhall and had to be saved from the Starks. He was also described as a shy and intelligent man.

Actually, he's described as a strong man by his daughter. He wouldn't have survived the attack on the Tower of Joy if he was not as strong as Crannogmen are described. And being smart does not magically make you the best High Septon faker in the universe.

Yes. Ironborn and Andal warriors, including Freys, have attempted to conquer Greywater, but none have been able to find it. Many of the invaders rode into bogs and sank because of their armor. So I think Greywater Watch is safe.

That doesn't mean that they would leave Greywater Watch without an heir to rule. It's not about being conquered, but about making sure it's being ruled properly. In time of war. In the Neck.

What else you got?

Well all the above already makes your speculation unlikely, but if you want more, sure: it doesn't makes sense that the High Sparrow is Howland Reed because his first action as High Septon was to arrest Margaery Tyrell. This doesn't hurt the Lanisters, in fact it helps them. It was only after Osney confessed that the High Sparrow did anything to Cercei. In fact, he agreed to removing the debts the crown owed to the Church, which helped Cercei and the Lannisters.

Of course, you'll explain this why more tin-foil hat speculation (i.e. That he wanted to throw people off the tracks or whatever), but deep down you know your theory sucks.

I have never heard of anybody complain about LSH. Like I stated, a lot of book readers were pissed because she's not in the show.

Then you haven't been paying attention. Readers were "pissed" because they were significantly deviating from the books and because they would have liked Cat to continue. That doesn't mean that resurrecting dead characters is an uncontroversial thing to do...

"If you have, then you might know that Lady Stoneheart, or the undead Catelyn resurrected by Beric Dondarrion at the end of A Storm of Swords, *is a bit of a controversial decision on Martin's part among fans*. As well it would be: the Red Wedding is still possibly the most shocking and disheartening single event in the ASoIaF books to date, including Ned's infamous death at the end of Game. Within a handful of pages Cat goes from one of the main protagonist POVs in the series to being suddenly betrayed and murdered to rising again as a deathless, vengeful monster. "

http://prodigy.dreamwidth.org/26875.html

Greywater Watch is right beside the Riverlands which worship The Seven. So it's not a reach that he can gather a group of people pissed off about the war.

It's North of the Riverlands. North. The Riverlands are considered South. And yes, it is a reach. You saying it isn't doesn't make facts go away: The people in the Neck worship other gods. It would be a stretch that he would be able to find enough people that follow the seven to mount a completely new sect within that faith. Enough people, that didn't recognize him either! Your theory would require us to say the people in the Neck don't recognize their Lord.

Howland Reed is a smart man, so just because he believes in the Old Gods, doesn't mean he doesn't know The Seven. It's not hard to believe that he can easily learn the faith of The Seven. Therefore, he can get a cult of people who are upset with the war and march on King's Landing.

It's not about knowing the seven, it's about knowing all the rituals in order to pull off not only being a Septon, but a High Septon, and the most devout one in the Kingdoms at that. What you're saying is the equivalent of saying that because "Bob" is smart and he knows what a Ferrari looks like, he can magically become a Ferrari mechanic overnight. It doesn't make sense, and saying "Oh he's smart" doesn't magically allow us to make the leap that he learned everything he needs to learn about the seven.

Who is going to recognize someone who hasn't come out of a castle that nobody has been to? It's been about 20 years since Robert's Rebellion, and there are very few (if any) people alive who would've seen him during Robert's Rebellion. They are not a big house in the North. They are below Moat Cailin and very close to the Riverlands/Reach.

They are absolutely a big House in the North. They have almost a dozen other Houses pledging fealty to them! They control the Neck, which has one of the biggest strategic importance for controlling the North. Saying it's not a big house is just not true.

Even if he wouldn't be recognized by anyone in King's Landing - a silly proposition already - your theory requires us to believe that he wasn't recognize by anyone in the Neck either!

Like I stated above, he's a smart man that can easily learn the faith of The Seven and gather a group. Being the most devout wouldn't be hard to pull off either, all you have to do is preach the most conservative views of the faith, and because of the hate of the war and dislike of Joeffry, it's easy to get followers.

And like I stated above, being smart and knowing about the seven doesn't mean you know all the rituals and beliefs about the seven. Being the most devout isn't just about preaching conservative views, it's about knowing what views are conservative, and religiously practicing all the rituals, without mistake, so that people actually believe you and consider you so devout.

Just because you're strong, doesn't make you a savage. Intelligence goes a long way in a world with mostly illiterate/desperate people.

Of course. It just makes you not the High Sparrow, who isn't described as a Crannogman.

If there's no threat of losing your castle, there's no need to need an heir. Plus because Jojen has the gift of greensight, Howland probably does too, so he knows that there is no risk to Greywater. It's not like Lords have left their castles with no heirs before, they name someone a Castellan.

It's not just about losing their castle. It's about running the castle to begin with. You're saying he left the castle without anyone of his heirs to stay there. That's not something Lords do easily. Especially in the North; look at how important it was for Eddard to leave someone in Winterfell. Yes, it can definitely happen, but that doesn't mean it's likely, which is why it's yet another notch against your theory.

He wouldn't be able to just blow off an accusation like that, but he does torture the Kettleblack accuser to get the truth.

And yet he didn't pursue the Lanisters in any fashion until it was thrown into his lap! If your theory were correct he should have been ardently trying to figure out ways to fuck with the Lanisters from the start.

Why did he do that? Was it to gain favor with Cercei so he can get the faith militant back? Why would he need the faith militant back? To take control of Kings Landing and hurt the Lannisters.

Any sparrow would want the faith militant back. That's not something that links this to Howland Reed. The fact that he had to benefit the Lanisters to achieve this, goes against your theory that he is seeking revenge. He would have sought to achieve this without helping the Lanisters.

Even if you think that it was worth it because bringing the faith militant back was more hurtful to the Lanisters in the long run, it doesn't explain other things he did. Why let Cercei meet with visitors after she confessed to minor crimes? Why not make the execution of Ned an issue in the accusations against her?

If you're reading ASOIAF at face value, you're not really getting what a great writer GRRM truly is. Of course there are red herrings, but HS=HR has a lot of backing.

I know you need to read between the lines. But that doesn't mean HS=HR has a lot of backing. It just doesn't. You're exaggerating. If you read most of the discussions online you'll see people mainly say "Oh, that's interesting" and move on. The amount of fans that take it seriously is small, and the amount of passages in the book that support it are laughably small.

A theory that is well supported, for example, would be R + L = J. That not only has a lot of support from the fans, but it has a lot of textual evidence to go on. That would be a good reason to believe Jon Snow lives after Dance of Dragons (though saying you know it's because he's resurrected and not because he survives the encounter is just pure speculation).

Just because you post a link of someone saying LSH was bad for the books, doesn't make it right (and yes, I do realize there are more), but I've seen a more lot people complaining not just that they were deviating from the book, but because they really like the LSH story and how it's going to play out.

I didn't say it was "right". It's an opinion. There is no "right". I said resurrecting characters was controversial, and provided an article that concurred. Like you yourself concede, there are more. That's all I need.

Resurrecting characters is not something authors do lightly and when they do, they often get criticized for it because it removes the impact of future deaths if you can just resurrect characters that die. Regardless of whether fans wanted to see Lady Stoneheart or not, it's still a controversial move.

Yes it's technically the North, but c'mon man, it's about as south as you can go. Plus, White Harbor is significantly farther North and they worship The Seven (and before you bring up they are originally from the south, they were forced out during the Andal invasion and were given lands by the Starks which is why they are very faithful to them. So even though they are faithful to the Starks, they didn't even take their religion.) He'd be able to gather a small group in the neck because people left the Riverlands to avoid the war and the Brootherhood Without Banners. After gathering a small group, he works his way down gathering more and more. As far as the people of the neck not knowing who there lord was, unless they have distinct features i.e. The Hound, Tyrion etc. I doubt many people would know who their lords were, especially a crannogman that dress very homely.

White Harbor isn't a good comparison, for exactly the same reasons you brought up. It's not comparable to the Neck or the crannogmen who are some of the deepest roots to the North. The fact that the Neck is close to the South doesn't change the roots the crannogmen have to the old gods and traditions of the North.

All you're saying there is speculation. There is no reason to think that the sparrows started in the neck (you failed to quote the book or even link to google where it says that), and we have ample reasons to believe they did not.

Being smart does make it easy to learn a new religion and the practices that go along with it. It's not like the Dothraki religion where he would have to learn a new language and dialect. The Old Gods and The Seven both speak the common tongue, therefore, he just has to learn the practices. I'm catholic, but if I wanted to be a Mormon, I bet I could learn it quickly. Maybe not as quickly as Howland, but I also don't have Greensight and other magical shit. And because Greywater is so close to the South, it's not impossible to think that The Seven would be a common thing around the neck. And he never proved he was the most devout in the religion. According to Qyburn, the sparrows forcibly took over the selection process. They burst into the chambers with axes in hand and with their leader, the small septon, on their shoulders. The Most Devout relent in fear and name him the new High Septon.

Now you're trying to change to goalpost to "it's not impossible". I didn't say it's impossible. I said it's not well supported. Big difference. What you're suggesting is not supported by the text, and when you consider the likelihood of a crannogman learning all the practices of an entirely new faith that he's not familiar with, and learning them so well that he would fool everyone he meets... that's not likely. Sorry.

As for him being the most devout, he is absolutely considered as such by his followers, and those who don't follow him do so because they don't support his more fanatical interpretation, not because he's not devout or knowledgeable about the faith.

He's described as a homely man with no need for materialistic things, much like crannogmen.

Eschewing materialistic things describes millions of different people. I'm talking about physical appearances. The few physical appereances that describe HS and Reed are few, and very common. Half the fucking world has brown eyes.

It's not a notch in my theory, it's a common thing. Rodrik Cassel was the castellan of Winterfell in the absence of Robb Stark. Ramsay Snow was castellan of the Dreadfort in the absence of Roose Bolton (Technically his son I know, but wasn't at the time and had no claim to the Dreadfort if Roose died). Kevan Lannister was castellan of Casterly Rock in absence of Tywin Lannister. Gregor Clegane was castellan of Harrenhal in the absence of Tywin Lannister. Locke was castellan of Harrenhal in the absence of Roose Bolton.

You're making my point for me! In every single one of those cases, a blood relation was left in charge! Kevan? Still a Lannister. Rickon and Bran? Starks. Ramsay? A bastard son, yes, but a bastards can threaten claims to thrones (see Robert's bastards who were killed to prevent them from threatening Joffrey and Rickon's bid for the throne), and having a bastard son present is better than having nothing. Roose had no other choice. Reed did.

What you're saying is that Reed decided to leave Greywater without any of his heirs, when the North is facing the biggest threat it has faced in centuries. Again, that's possible, but not likely.

He did, by gaining favor with Cersei, luring here into a false sense of safety, and then exposing her lies.

So you're donning your tin-foil hat and rationalizing away things that don't match. Exactly like I said you would. I don't doubt your ability to do gymnastics.

It links it to Howland Reed because the faith militant will be able to remove the Lannisters from the throne. He has to let Cercei meet with visitors after confessing to minor crimes, emphasis on MINOR, she is Queen Regent and still has to be treated as such till found guilty of any MAJOR crimes. He does bring up that Ned Stark should not have been executed at Balor's Sept, but Joeffry was the one who ordered the execution.

Wrong. He does not need to let Cercei meet with any visitors. She was not allowed any visitors before the confession (before he knows she's guilty of anything), there would be even less reason to let her meet with people after (when he knows she's guilty of at least something). The reason he lets her see visitors is because he feels she has been contrite about her sins, and therefore decides to reward her honesty. That matches a Septon who is devout, not someone out for vengeance.

He says that Ned shouldn't have been executed there because Cercei was claiming that the Sept was being defiled. She brought up the issue first. He was just returning the volley, and never once pressed the issue. Furthermore, the previous Septon also protested the location of Ned's execution.. The HS's response is no different than the other Septon's in that regard. If what you were saying were true, he should have been bringing up the issue first, and made a more powerful rebuke than the old Septon...

You have to give a little wiggle-room for theories. I may be wrong in the end, but there is a lot of backing to the theory and I'm not the only one who thinks it.

No, there's not a lot of backing. You are exaggerating. You haven't quoted a single shred of evidence from the book. The only thing you've provided is speculation. Like speculating Reed magically learned everything there is to know about the seven. That's not in the text. Or how the Sparrows started in the Neck. That's not in the text.

That's not true at all and you know it. HS=HR is a big theory in the ASOIAF community...Period. (We haven't had an O&A reference in quite a while.)

No, it's not. It's one the is repeated by its supporters, but not one that has a lot of support by the fans. Read the threads. The vast majority of people there doubt the theory and call it a crackpot theory. For example, here's a thorough summary of the theory and the "evidence" for it and against it. The conclusion? That it is , quote, "moderately crazy", and "doesn't have strong evidence and is pretty implausible".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOD7O7migDw

There is evidence that R+L=J is a red herring too. What would be the point of pretty much the entire Night's Watch going Ides of March on Jon Snow then? They believe that he's going against his oath, which results in death. Do you think they're just gonna stab him, let him live, and when he gets better act like nothing happened? You want textual evidence that he dies, well it doesn't get more textual than saying he gets stabbed several times, I don't know a lot of people that get through that. He dies, just accept it.

The evidence for R+L=J is overwhelming in comparison to the shitty evidence for HS=HR.

When I said "lives" I was including possibly resurrecting as well; meaning, he's not gone forever. Out of the three theories you gave, that one is the most plausible one (that he's resurrected) because R+L=J proves Jon's importance. I personally think it's more likely that he survives and the description of the stabbing is to set up a cliff-hanger (e.g. like he did with Brianne), but him resurrecting is still plausible given his importance. I mainly disagreed with how sure you were when in reality it was pure speculation.

But those aren't spoilers... They are theories, and some of the worse ones at that.

Whatever.

The guy who made the account is yanking one out right now to the thought that he is still trolling retards months later

I stopped caring about GoT after the finale of last season. They killed the best character and lost the greatest actor on the show.

Which character/actor are you mentioning? And I think OP meant the High Sparrow is Howland Reed, which would make some sense.

...Oh yeah, Jimmy did get tricked, that's why he's been noticeably livid these past few shows. And I base that statement on only others' past reddit comments and zero show listening since the re-signing.

Show us Jims tweet calling him a moron.

The Chip account run by Jimmy referred to it.

https://twitter.com/ChipChipperson/status/580933576507711489

I think he mentioned it when he was on TACS shortly after this as well.

@ChipChipperson

2015-03-26 03:25 UTC

Tsss what the fukk wood anyone need 13 eucalids for Fukkin 12 is good enough. if you believe that fake, yore even dummer then me

#Chippah

^{This message was created by a bot}

^{[Contact creator][Source code]}

And what was that?

I have never heard of anybody complain about LSH. Like I stated, a lot of book readers were pissed because she's not in the show.

Then you haven't been paying attention. Readers were "pissed" because they were significantly deviating from the books and because they would have liked Cat to continue. That doesn't mean that resurrecting dead characters is an uncontroversial thing to do...

"If you have, then you might know that Lady Stoneheart, or the undead Catelyn resurrected by Beric Dondarrion at the end of A Storm of Swords, *is a bit of a controversial decision on Martin's part among fans*. As well it would be: the Red Wedding is still possibly the most shocking and disheartening single event in the ASoIaF books to date, including Ned's infamous death at the end of Game. Within a handful of pages Cat goes from one of the main protagonist POVs in the series to being suddenly betrayed and murdered to rising again as a deathless, vengeful monster. "

http://prodigy.dreamwidth.org/26875.html

Greywater Watch is right beside the Riverlands which worship The Seven. So it's not a reach that he can gather a group of people pissed off about the war.

It's North of the Riverlands. North. The Riverlands are considered South. And yes, it is a reach. You saying it isn't doesn't make facts go away: The people in the Neck worship other gods. It would be a stretch that he would be able to find enough people that follow the seven to mount a completely new sect within that faith. Enough people, that didn't recognize him either! Your theory would require us to say the people in the Neck don't recognize their Lord.

Howland Reed is a smart man, so just because he believes in the Old Gods, doesn't mean he doesn't know The Seven. It's not hard to believe that he can easily learn the faith of The Seven. Therefore, he can get a cult of people who are upset with the war and march on King's Landing.

It's not about knowing the seven, it's about knowing all the rituals in order to pull off not only being a Septon, but a High Septon, and the most devout one in the Kingdoms at that. What you're saying is the equivalent of saying that because "Bob" is smart and he knows what a Ferrari looks like, he can magically become a Ferrari mechanic overnight. It doesn't make sense, and saying "Oh he's smart" doesn't magically allow us to make the leap that he learned everything he needs to learn about the seven.

Who is going to recognize someone who hasn't come out of a castle that nobody has been to? It's been about 20 years since Robert's Rebellion, and there are very few (if any) people alive who would've seen him during Robert's Rebellion. They are not a big house in the North. They are below Moat Cailin and very close to the Riverlands/Reach.

They are absolutely a big House in the North. They have almost a dozen other Houses pledging fealty to them! They control the Neck, which has one of the biggest strategic importance for controlling the North. Saying it's not a big house is just not true.

Even if he wouldn't be recognized by anyone in King's Landing - a silly proposition already - your theory requires us to believe that he wasn't recognize by anyone in the Neck either!

Like I stated above, he's a smart man that can easily learn the faith of The Seven and gather a group. Being the most devout wouldn't be hard to pull off either, all you have to do is preach the most conservative views of the faith, and because of the hate of the war and dislike of Joeffry, it's easy to get followers.

And like I stated above, being smart and knowing about the seven doesn't mean you know all the rituals and beliefs about the seven. Being the most devout isn't just about preaching conservative views, it's about knowing what views are conservative, and religiously practicing all the rituals, without mistake, so that people actually believe you and consider you so devout.

Just because you're strong, doesn't make you a savage. Intelligence goes a long way in a world with mostly illiterate/desperate people.

Of course. It just makes you not the High Sparrow, who isn't described as a Crannogman.

If there's no threat of losing your castle, there's no need to need an heir. Plus because Jojen has the gift of greensight, Howland probably does too, so he knows that there is no risk to Greywater. It's not like Lords have left their castles with no heirs before, they name someone a Castellan.

It's not just about losing their castle. It's about running the castle to begin with. You're saying he left the castle without anyone of his heirs to stay there. That's not something Lords do easily. Especially in the North; look at how important it was for Eddard to leave someone in Winterfell. Yes, it can definitely happen, but that doesn't mean it's likely, which is why it's yet another notch against your theory.

He wouldn't be able to just blow off an accusation like that, but he does torture the Kettleblack accuser to get the truth.

And yet he didn't pursue the Lanisters in any fashion until it was thrown into his lap! If your theory were correct he should have been ardently trying to figure out ways to fuck with the Lanisters from the start.

Why did he do that? Was it to gain favor with Cercei so he can get the faith militant back? Why would he need the faith militant back? To take control of Kings Landing and hurt the Lannisters.

Any sparrow would want the faith militant back. That's not something that links this to Howland Reed. The fact that he had to benefit the Lanisters to achieve this, goes against your theory that he is seeking revenge. He would have sought to achieve this without helping the Lanisters.

Even if you think that it was worth it because bringing the faith militant back was more hurtful to the Lanisters in the long run, it doesn't explain other things he did. Why let Cercei meet with visitors after she confessed to minor crimes? Why not make the execution of Ned an issue in the accusations against her?

If you're reading ASOIAF at face value, you're not really getting what a great writer GRRM truly is. Of course there are red herrings, but HS=HR has a lot of backing.

I know you need to read between the lines. But that doesn't mean HS=HR has a lot of backing. It just doesn't. You're exaggerating. If you read most of the discussions online you'll see people mainly say "Oh, that's interesting" and move on. The amount of fans that take it seriously is small, and the amount of passages in the book that support it are laughably small.

A theory that is well supported, for example, would be R + L = J. That not only has a lot of support from the fans, but it has a lot of textual evidence to go on. That would be a good reason to believe Jon Snow lives after Dance of Dragons (though saying you know it's because he's resurrected and not because he survives the encounter is just pure speculation).