I think the general argument for the benefit of socialized medicine is that the government can leverage medical companies into providing fair prices to the consumer by giving them huge contracts. It's hard to imagine that the NHS could be as horrifically evil as the insurance and medical industry is in America now.

If Ant was still a tin knocker I think he would be ALL IN with the health care tho

I'm not sure about that. Blue-collar white people vote against their own interests in droves in this country.

There is no free health care, and I don't want the people running the DMV to be involved with my doctor.

They don't. Health insurance bought on the 'Obamacare' exchanges is still provided by the kindly folks at Cigna, BCBS, Anthem, etc...

In a truly socialized free system you wouldn't have these providers anymore though is his point. Obamacare is not free healthcare or single payer quite the opposite despite the uneducated who claim it "a step in that direction".

I live in the UK and I think the NHS is a bag o shite

I live in the US, and the for profit insurance is also a bag of shit. Expensive as hell.

Waiting for someone in this thread to stupidly conflate medical insurance from a private firm with the quality of care from the health care community.

I think that has more to do with the framework your insurance operates in as opposed to the general idea of insurance

Well, of course. Our system is entirely fucked from top to bottom. The worse thing about insurance in the US, is that the price goes up EVERY year. I've been working as a professional for 16 years and not once has the price remained neutral or gone down in price. It's enraging.

On a positive note, I had brain surgery in 2012 and the total cost was $70,000. I only ended up having to pay $300 for the entire bill. Three separate co-pays; One to the hospital, one to the neurosurgeon and another to the Ophthalmic surgeon.

Mid Staffs

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-20965469

its pretty much the same here in most states fyi.

I was in a car accident through no fault of my own and on the 18th at 22 years old, I will have a microdisectomy and it will cost anywhere from $40,000-$70,000.

Fuck off you ungrateful piece of shit. If I wasn't legally represent and I accepted the initial offer of $500, I would be looking at filing for bankruptcy. It happens. My friend got breast cancer and is now 300,000 in debt at 26 years old.

Edit: sorry I was a douche. It's just frustrating to go through a living nightmare here in the states and hear you dismiss the "free" medical coverage you get over in the UK. :( I wouldn't wish this shit on anyone.

I'm glad you put free in quotes as it isn't free. The amount of National Insurance I pay is astronomical and it's all pissed up the wall by an outdated, unaccountable bureaucracy. Whilst your situation is lamentable and I think the framework that insurance in the US operates in needs to be altered, I don't think policy should be dictated by anecdotal evidence.

I don't think it's huge though when you consider how much it costs in the US. Maybe we don't need it right now but NHS and pensions save people's lives

Tell that to the families of the victims of Mid Staffordshire Trust neglect and the subsequent report that was covered up until after the 2010 GE

And tell your point to the people helped by the NHS. I'm not saying it's perfect but I would take an NHS model vs the US model any day. And I've been to A+E in St Georges in Stafford, it's crap. Not a reason to privatize the NHS though. Should be improved publicly, I think.

Having worked in the NHS a few years ago, I can tell you Mid Staffs is not a one-off. I've never said it should be privatised, but it desperately needs reform in all areas

Yeah, I got free healthcare in my country aswell, I cant even phantom having to worry about money everytime you are sick. Yes we dont get as good healthcare as you but it is free.

I don't know if it's too late for your friend or not, but something /u/drsteve103 suggested on Weird Medicine was directly negotiating with the hospital's administration on the price - often times they'll knock the price down by 50% or even way more. That's the one saving grace of the prices being so insanely overinflated.

Good luck with your surgery, that sounds like a bitch.

It's easy to oppose it until you need it.

No shit, that's where the "until you need it" part comes in.

Notice to the U.K., Obamacare isn't free!

2 things.

1. Here in the US we don't need free healthcare. We just need a crackdown on price gouging. It's a system that keeps feeding itself. Health providers raise costs because they can and insurance companies follow suite. If you look at some of your itemized procedures they are gouged to hell and the government should work on fixing that.

2. Western Europe can laugh at us all they want but the ONLY reason they enjoy "free healthcare" is because of the NATO treaty. The US almost single handily is in charge of defending Western Europe which is why our defense budget is so high. Now imagine if we pulled out of NATO and you all were forced to defend yourselves? Trust me say bye bye to your socialized healthcare at that point because the amount of GDP spent on your military is nothing. I think last I saw only 4 of the 28 member countries meet MINIMUM GDP requirements for defense spending of about 2%. This fact is conveniently forgotten by all in this debate.

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free health care is a beautiful concept. but it isn't free, but funded by taxes. you pay higher taxes to subsidize the system, than if you pay for your own health care. ant is a libertarian, so he's opposed to it.

additionally: obamacare is more or less just a tax. it covers shit, especially countless pre-existing conditions aren't covered at all... ultimately it only helps the big insuring companies, not the people.

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